Gentle Conversation with Utpaladhi
The very first 'co-interview' in my brand new series - hurray!
I love reading interviews because I am nosey. I also love conversation because it births something greater than the sum of two individuals - maybe even something with a smidge of magic. In this new series I will be asking interesting people to enter into a Gentle Conversation with me - we each get three questions each. I am excited to see where it will take us! First up, my good friend Utpaladhi wasn’t just a willing guinea pig but has all sorts of interesting things to say. Over to us…
Welcome Utpaladhi! I don't need to tell you that I'm a therapist, writer & Buddhist teacher, or that have been preoccupied over the past few months with launching a Buddhist ministry training programme & setting up here on Substack. Maybe we could start with who you are and what’s been preoccupying you.
I'm Utpaladhi. I often don't know how to answer the question of who I am! I'm a human being trying to navigate my way through life in a way that brings meaning, connection and happiness to myself and others. I live in the Hampshire countryside with my partner, our 14 year old son and our newest family member Maisie, a 7 year old saluki lurcher rescue dog. I'm a member of the Triratna Buddhist Order and my paid work is to help find ways to connect our Order internationally. I also am a trustee and huge fan of Buddhafield, who run camping retreats and events that celebrate community, nature connection and Buddhist values in creative ways. Currently I am preoccupied with learning about the enneagram, exploring a simple, contemplative life as a working mum (if that's even possible!), and trying to find kindly ways of meeting my changing needs as I transition towards menopause.
Thank you. Yes, I sometimes wonder if 'simple contemplative life' is an oxymoron in these times, even without the responsibility of being a mum. My first question - I'd love to hear about three things that have helped you to take steps towards this kind of simple life.
I had a bit of an epiphany moment when I was juggling a lot - a toddler, writing a PhD and working a couple of jobs as a lecturer and in university admin - where I saw clearly just how unhappy I was with this way of living. I went on a weekend retreat to learn to meditate and that would be the first thing: connecting to a sense of stillness, rather than always trying to achieve or be busy. And as I’ve gone on, knowing that sense of stillness is there for me is a precious gift. It’s like a cooling stream I can connect with at points in my life when things get too much. And then from that place I can make other changes which allow more space for stillness and contentment to arise.
I think the second thing would be that I have simplified my physical possessions. It sounds a bit trite to say that decluttering leads to a contemplative life, but I actually think it does! For a long time I put my identity in things. My book collection meant people would know me as well read and interesting, my CD collection showed my good taste in music. But all these ‘things’ around me aren’t who I am. And they made my mind cluttered too. Without so many things I can focus more on my internal world, on my relationships and how I show up in the world.
The third thing that’s helping me live a simpler life is a definite process! It’s learning to see myself as just fine as I am. Seeing the messy, fallible, difficult parts of myself and loving them. It’s hard, but when I know myself as acceptable just as I am then there’s a huge relaxation that happens in my system. I can just be me! It’s ok! My teacher Sangharakshita said ‘You don’t have to justify yourself by being useful. You yourself are the justification for your existence’ and I find there’s a deep simplicity and beautiful truth in that, if I can put aside my desire to strive and achieve. It also means that when I meet others I have more ability to meet them where they are, without wanting to change or fix them. For me, the outcome of the simple, contemplative life is to come more deeply into the heart. Accepting myself is a really important part of that.
My question for you, Satya, is a big one: do you think there is a particular purpose to life, and if so, how does that manifest itself in your life personally?
Thanks for sharing those three things - lots of resonance. My short answer to your question: 'be Satya'. As I've got older and paid attention to teachings from people such as the Japanese Buddhist teacher Rev. Gyomay Kubose, I'm seeing that 'being me' is a better goal than 'becoming better'. It still feels a bit scandalous to say it, as there are lots of parts of me that say I should just keep 'improving' as a matter of urgency, but that doesn't really work out for me in the long run - it's just not sustainable to be a 'better version of myself' and I can end up with a backlash. A recent example is that I failed to set boundaries with a friend for a long time because I wanted to be 'patient and kind', but I ended up in a nasty tangle with them because I reached the end of my tether and set big boundaries that probably seemed to come out of nowhere. If I could have that time again, I'd admit to having limits earlier on in our friendship and act accordingly. So ‘being more me’ is my current ongoing project! I hope that if I become more me, it will benefit those around me and the planet, as well as myself. My question for you - who would you become if you were to become 'more Utpaladhi'?
I completely love that question!! Well, there’s things I love about being me that I’d like to inhabit more often, or grow more fully into. When I’m relaxed and there’s little anxiety present I am very playful and curious. I’m warm with people and fun, and I don’t take myself too seriously. It’s great when those parts of me are present and I can really inhabit them. Life feels wonderful! There’s also quite different parts of me that are devotional and love quiet and reflection, and when they are given space there’s a deep peace and grounded quality in my life. But I guess to be ‘more Utpaladhi’ I also have to accept that at times I’m also closed/tight/anxious. That’s the challenge isn’t it, to allow parts of you to bloom without closing off or denying the other parts that feel less palatable.
My next question to you is on a totally different topic, and is a classic! If you were to host a dinner party for six people (living or dead) who would you invite?
Well, my first reaction is that I don't really want to have to do all that cooking! And six sounds like a lot... since the pandemic I've become even more hermitty than before. But let's go with the fantasy and get a top vegan caterer in, and make sure that everyone leaves by 9.30pm... John Peel, the DJ who died in October 2004, inspired me as a young teenager to follow my own path and to be proud of being weird. Suzuki Shunryu, the Japanese Zen teacher who died in 1971. My ex-partner Steve who died last year, just to see how he's getting on wherever he is now. And maybe some alive people... I think Lizzo would be fun? And Ru Paul... and, ooh, one more... YOU!
The same question back at ya... (don't worry I won't be upset if you don't choose me!)
Ha! Yes, fantasy dinner parties *totally* have caterers and an early night built in! I would invite two of my favourite creatives - Canadian writer Margaret Atwood and musician/artist PJ Harvey. I’ve spent a lot of time with both their work during my academic studies and I’d love to ask questions! It’s so hard to narrow down Buddhist teachers, but I’d invite the founder of my Order Urgyen Sangharakshita as I never got to meet him in person before he died. I’d probably also invite Pema Chodron as I love her teaching. Tenzin Palmo, the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hahn would have to wait for another time! The last two would need to be funny people I think, so I’d invite comedians Noel Fielding and Sue Perkins. Mostly living folks, interestingly.
My last question to you, dear Satya, is do you think that everyone has a ‘calling’ in life and if so, how do you think people can connect with that?
Ooh, I would love to come to your dinner party - could you squeeze me in? And another lovely question from you. Without hesitation I would say absolutely, everyone has a calling. That might not be something glamorous or 'high-ranking' in our soceity, but I'd say that it's crucial that we all have different callings - we need someone to work in mortuaries, someone to raise children, someone to deliver letters and parcels, someone to attend boring meetings about council taxes. It's impossible for us to know what 'worth' or 'value' a person's being has, and so I would also like to include the value of those who are, for example, in the grips of addiction or caught up in the tangle of trauma and crime. Maybe something necessary is being 'worked through' in lives that look from the outside as if they could be 'without worth'. How would I know? And how do we connect with this calling? I could write a whole book on that... Briefly - tuning in to our insides, remaining open to messages from the outside, and continual course corrections. It feels like a very mystical process to me and that's hard to put into words. It's not always about whether it feels good either - it's not easy for me to write, but I know that it's my calling.
I would like to offer you the last word - no more questions, just a little space if you'd like it.
Thank you so much for that beautiful answer. I feel the conundrum of my calling quite weightily in my life, so maybe you could write that book you mention one day to help me out?!
I guess the last word from me is on friendship. You and I have been friends for some years now and our connection brings a world of joy into my life. The Buddha says friendship is the whole of the spiritual life, and I can see the truth of that. With friends like you I feel really ‘met’ - I can be myself, we can bond over fun stuff but also have meaningful conversations about the depths which helps me make sense of this funny human life we’re living. I love that we cheer each other on with our passions and interests, and we can be alongside each other when things are difficult. I am blessed by having you as a friend and I wish that everyone could find similar friendship in their lives. Much love and gratitude!
Thank you lovely Utpaladhi. Hurray for us & thank you for being here.
Lovely to hear your enthusiasm, folk. I'm looking forward to doing more...
Thank you both! Such a lovely, wise and expansive exchange that had me nodding and "mmmm'ing" all throughout. Gorgeous resonance. Very grateful to you Satya and Utpaladhi.